Are Prayer Ministers Christians or Spiritists?

In comments on previous posts Stuart Onans raised some concerns, saying people involved in prayer ministry are spiritists. I quote one of these comments in reply to my asking for his idea of what a spiritist is:

You must know the meaning spiritist: contacting demonic spirits.
The Holy spirit you contact is not the Holy Spirit of God. You have been fooled by unsound doctrine. 20th century methods who broke away to get more Holy Spirit and formed the pentecostal movement are a bunch of subjective Heretics. The tongues and prophecy in the early church were attributed to the apostles who planted those churches. The ordinary gifts stopped when the apostles died. However, the extraordinary gift of healing continued. This is Calvin and this is Biblical. I pray that God may destroy the Pentecostal movement within my lifetime.

Regards
Stuart

More recently Stuart sent me this email:

Hi Malcolm, 
 
I have a question. 
 
Are you a spiritist or a Christian?
Because the prayer activities you engage in at with prayer ministry groups 
is subjective and spiritist by nature. 

How about that! 

Cheers
Stuart

Hi Stuart,

 Thank you for your concern about our welfare, and the welfare of those you probably think we are leading astray. I appreciate you taking the time to correct what you see as our errors. The points you raise are certainly important ones, and we always wanting to learn more about how to live as true believers in an increasingly godless age.

 You write:

   >Are you a spiritist or a Christian?
  > Because the prayer activities you engage in at with prayer ministry groups
  > is subjective and spiritist by nature.

I will attempt to answer your question. I am indeed a Christian, as I understand the term; and in no way a spiritist, as I understand the term. However, because there are so many different views on just what constitutes a Christian today, and a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation, I don’t think this conveys very much. The word ‘Christian’ has become a debased label – it means whatever each user intends by it, and something else to each listener. Because of this I prefer to call myself a follower of Jesus, which is what I believe the early church also did before the Romans bestowed the label on them as a term of abuse. They proudly accepted and adopted this epithet, and I would do the same, except that in their case each knew what the other meant, which is no longer true today. You will need to tell me what you mean by ‘Christian’ if you desire a more useful answer.

 However, I will give you are short version of my understanding of what it means to be a follower of Jesus. The Lord Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, come in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary. He renounced the privileges of Godhood and became a human, lived a life pleasing to Father God, in total obedience, and committed no sin. He worked wonders on earth, as a man filled with the Holy Spirit, who came upon him at his baptism by John. He was falsely accused of blasphemy when he truthfully declared who he really was, was tried without attempting to defend himself, and executed by the Roman authorites at the instigation of the Jewish leaders. However, they did not take his life – he willingly gave it for us, to pay the price for our sin. As the Second Adam he descended to hell where he preached about who he is, and took back the keys of authority handed over to Satan by Adam. God vindicated him on the third day by raising him from the dead. The resurrected Jesus met with his disciples, both men and women, breathed on them, and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” He then commissioned them to do the same things he had been doing, and to teach subsequent disciples (followers) to do the same. He ascended to his Father, who gave him all authority in heaven and earth. Jesus asked the Father to send the Holy Spirit to live within all who would accept what he did for them and commit their lives to him. This Holy Spirit is the very presence of God, and the Spirit of Jesus, by which we are able to do the same things Jesus did while he was on earth in the flesh. The Holy Spirit is the source of our eternal life, which begins now, not when we die. To be a follower of Jesus (or Christian) is to live as Jesus lived, in obedience to the Father, and to do his work by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is possible because of the gifts the Spirit provides. The Holy Spirit is also regenerating those he lives within, giving them a new nature that is able to resist sin, and is no longer subject to Satan’s rule. A follower of Jesus once again has the spiritual authority that Adam had before the Fall, and has the ability to know the presence of God, to hear and see with spiritual ears and eyes in a way they did not have before, and the power to obey what they hear and do what they see the Father doing, like Jesus did on earth.

 Now some questions for you:

 1. You use the word subjective as if it is a bad thing. Why?

 2. You use the word ‘spiritist’. What do you mean by it? If, as you say, it simply means one who contacts demonic spirits, then Jesus is guilty as well as the early church apostles and disciples, and the church fathers that followed them. Surely the reason for talking to demons must have a bearing on this!

 3. Which particular activities are you refering to as spiritist?

 4. In what way are those activities spiritist?

 5. You say, “your subjective procedures for contacting God are not scriptural.” If you would like to thoroughly read our teaching on this in the website www.listening2god.com you will see that our ‘subjective procedures’, as you put it, are scriptural. If you rule out the possibility of God using the subjective as well as the objective a number of difficulties arise. First, you are limiting God and telling him what he may and may not do. This puts you in the place of God. You are also casting doubt on the wisdom of God creating in humans the ability to be subjective as well as objective. Without the possibility of subjectivity there would only be logic – no love, beauty, joy, faith, and so on. After all, faith is the evidence of things NOT seen!

 To me, the test of the objectivity of something is not whether it is strictly logical, or physically concrete (that is Greek thinking, not Christian) , but whether it produces the results it is supposed to produce. In the case of being a Christian, surely the test is whether you are able to do what Jesus commanded his followers to do. And what did he command them to do? To preach the gospel, to heal the sick, cast out demons, to raise the dead. In fact, he said we would do GREATER works than he did! In what way they are to be greater is not clear, but we are certainly seeing wonderful healings, having people come into the Kingdom, and even hearing reports of people being raised from the dead. But this would not happen if we relied on our own understanding without constantly listening to God’s voice, and using his spiritual gifts. We tried it that way for decades, with very little lasting fruit. If you are interested, I was brought up in a reformed, fundamentalist, protestant church. They were VERY zealous for the Lord, but to little effect. They were excellent at arguing their doctrinal positions, and had an explanation for everything, but it brought death to my spirit, not the life I experience more and more since leaving that church and seeking the reality of Jesus in other circles. Far from throwing my intellect out the window, I discovered that the Holy Spirit is now able to teach me and show me things that my heart has long desired but could never see before. And it is very intellectually satisfying. Do you expect me now to go back to what I had as a child? That’s not a very attractive proposition. Once having tasted …!

 A Christian lives in the same reality as a non-Christian, but that reality is enormously greater than the physical world. It is a spiritual reality that encompasses earth and heaven, humans, angels and demons, and God (although he is not contained by it). The difference is that the Christian can be aware of what is around, and live accordingly. Too many ‘Christians’ live in a diminished, impoverished subset of what is actually there for them to possess. When we learn to engage with all of reality, with the authority and fearlessness that being an eternal, spiritual being makes possible, life takes on a new, truer meaning. One of my favourite Bible passages is the one in 2 Kings 6 where Elisha and his servant are surrounded by an enemy army. Elisha asks the Lord to open his fearful servant’s eyes, and he sees that the hills surrounding them are filled with horses and chariots of fire. He then asks the Lord to blind the eyes of the enemy and singlehandedly leads them into a trap. This is the sort of spiritual vision and authority available to the follower of Jesus today, but so few desire it. They appear to be afraid of it. They would rather remain blind and themselves be led into a trap by the enemy of their souls.

6. In your posts to the group you use the word ‘Reformed’ as if this makes everything you say correct. Would you like to justify this position for me please? For example: Which particular type of ‘Reformed’ are you? Was Jesus ‘Reformed’? Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter or Paul ‘Reformed’ the way you are? Or do you have to follow Calvin to be ‘Reformed’? Or Luther? (Neither were very nice men, and both had some very strange ideas, even though they were both mightily used of God). Perhaps you prefer Zwingli? (One has to wonder about the ‘Christianity’ of all of these ‘Reformers’ given their murderous treatment of fellow believers such as the Anabaptists). Are you Calvinist? Hyper-Calvinist? Dispensational? Pre-mil, post-mil, a-mil … I could go on and on.

 There are many other varieties of ‘Christianity’ – Arminian, Lutheran, Anabaptist, Baptists of every doctrinal perspective you care to name, Presbyterians, Methodists, Congregationalists, Uniting Churches of many kinds, Churches of Christ, Anglicans, Anglo-Catholic, Pentecostal, Charismatic, non-Charismatic, Coptic, Orthodox, Episcopal, Roman Catholic, Emerging, Modern, Premodern, Postmodern, Ancient, Contemporary, Fundamentalist, Liberal, Reformed, Messianic, etc. Then there are the many mixtures of these. I even heard the other day of a group of Calvinistic Methodists!!! And there are many groups that call themselves ‘Christian’ but explicitly do not follow Christ as Messiah, such as Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Spiritualists (not Christian but certainly spiritist), and Christian Scientists (neither Christian nor scientists) – what does this say about the meaning of ‘Christian’? You see, the trouble with allowing only objectivity is that EVERYTHING then must be defined and labeled. Then the labels are thrown around as if knowing a thing’s name exempts the user from having to be able to explain what they understand it to be.

 7. You say, “The Holy spirit you contact is not that of God’s.” Who is it then? Do you know this because you heard it from God?  Is it knowledge formed from your own experience of how God still speaks to people today? Or is it a deduction from your theology about how God has changed and no longer does what he once commonly did? It would be wise for you to also consider the ramifications of your being wrong. You will then be declaring that something that is of the Holy Spirit is of some other spirit. This is a risky position to be in. How did the early church decide it was the Holy Spirit speaking in Acts 13:2 which resulted in Barnabas and Saul being sent off on the missionary journey?

 8. You say, “You must stop your tongues and word’s of knowledge.” Why? You have said this before and when others contradicted you you ignored them. Would you like to tell me why you think this way? After all, Paul very clearly teaches that tongues is a gift of God and that he wished more people used them more. He said he himself used tongues more than any of them. Peter used words of knowledge – the story of Ananias and Sapphira being a prime example. Was he wrong to do so? After all, God certainly vindicated him in the resulting events.

Because your charges against us have been made in a public forum, it would be more appropriate to continue the discussion there. So I will put this post up on the blog and Google group and we can discuss it with others in the comments.

Regards

Mal

About Mal

Pastor, webhost, web designer, radio amateur and aspiring pro blogger.
This entry was posted in Counselling, Hearing God's Voice, Heresy, Ministry, Prayer, Speaking in Tongues, Spiritual Gifts, Theology and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

21 Responses to Are Prayer Ministers Christians or Spiritists?

  1. Stuart says:

    Hi, Stuart here.

    Mal, Great idea, more exposure.

    If you are involved in prayer ministries understand that the procedures they follow in their prayer processes and holy spirit contact are not described in Scripture. They are very much liked to the practices of spirit mediums. These people at prayer ministries conjure demons at their will, unknowingly believing it is the Holy Spirit they are contacting. This must have been a very big problem in the mystic Catholic dark ages of the 12th and 13 th centuries, so the Westminster Confession of 1640, created by the best Theologians in Britain and endorsed by the English Parliament, addresses this spiritist problem in it’s first article. “Read it on_line”.

    Mal, Isiah 8:19 applies to you: When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people enquire of their God?

    Mal, You hear subjective whispers and you also whisper and mutter.

    Read the opening of Hebrews and the opening of Luke’s Gospel who writes and account of the work of Jesus fir the sure propagation of the works of Jesus.

    What about that Mal: Reformed logic always wins.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  2. pastor_prema says:

    Greetings! to U in Jesus Christ

    I am Prema kumar.I was born in christian Indian family.My father is a pastor who established “Sharon Ministries” at Nellore district , Andhra Pradesh in India.
    But I had been living as a bad boy without obedience both at parents and God.I did not believe in Christ and have many doubts about existance of God.I became as slave
    to the bad habits that alchoholik and drugs.

    So,Nobody respect myself all are hates me and insulted me. One day,I think myself about my uglyness.I think myself in the Dark room, I decided to die.
    Next morning,a Hindu girl friend encouraged me and she remembered about the greatness of Jesus Christ.Further I think my God and Hell, that is why if I will die,
    I would go to Hell defenitly. So I stoped thinking about evil and die. But I began to pray to release from Bad habits(Drugs) and for best healthy sleeping.It is the
    first real prayer in my tenage life.Gradually, I get peace, joy and also good health.

    I am a sinner. But Jesus loves me. I realized this through the Bible verses follows “In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins,
    according to the riches of his grace before the origin if the Earth and Cosmic” Eph-1:6,7. Then ,I understood that God has a plan at me. So, I devoted myself to
    God.
    Further,I studied Theological courses. During the Bible college studies through the grace of God,I got good name as a Leader and Warden. Then I went
    to Orissa State as a “Missionary”. In that area peoples are very poor and uncivilized.

    Now, (2003) I am serving God accompained by my father who established a number of churches. I have living as Pastor, Spiritual Leader and Evangelist
    and also Biblical Teacher in our “Sharon Ministries”.
    My Ministries
    a) Children Ministry.
    b) Youth Ministry.
    c) I make Disciples through Bible Training and Personal Care.
    d) Evening Bible College.
    When you make a donation you are making an eternal difference in the lives of millions. It is when friends like you support this ministry financially that we are able to reach out with God’s message of unconditional love and unending hope. Every money you give us used to change lives with the Good News of Jesus Christ.
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    D.No:24/2/1422,
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  3. Carrie says:

    Stuart,
    You state the following in your first comment:
    “The ordinary gifts stopped when the apostles died. However, the extraordinary gift of healing continued. This is Calvin and this is Biblical.”
    I noticed you validate your claims by saying the ‘This is Calvin’ part first, and the ‘this is Biblical’, last. Do you follow the works of Calvin, or do you share my belief that the Bible is the one true authoritative text for a Christian and the very breath of God?
    If so, please, would you mind telling me from the Bible, where you source your beliefs that, “The ordinary gifts stopped when the apostles died. However, the extraordinary gift of healing continued.”?
    Also, I am a Holy-Spirit filled, born again believer. I seek the face of God, I do not rely on signs and wonders, or even need them in order to be saved and feel ok. However, I have found that by receiving the Holy Spirit, walking closely with him, being open to all He has and not limiting Him, and obeying and submitting to him, the signs and wonders bit just seems to be unavoidable. Also unavoidable, is becoming regenerated and realizing over time that you are walking in more of the fruits of the Spirit everyday. Let everything be judged by its fruit.
    I go to a spirit-filled non-denominational church. I do not judge my brothers and sisters in any denomination… I might not agree with their teachings, but my attitude is – if you truly love Jesus with your heart, come and lets fellowship together… lets unify rather than focus on our differences.
    So I say to you Brother (if you will allow me to call you that), that I am of the opinion that some of the claims you are making are very dangerous. How can you tell me, that the Holy Spirit that I make contact with on a constant basis throughout the day, the Holy Spirit that is maturing in me the fruits of the Spirit, even the Holy Spirit who empowers me to cast out demons in the name of Jesus (which I do, because Jesus has commanded me to as a disciple of His), is in fact not the Holy Spirit at all?
    Who is it then? Is it a demon? Why would the enemy empower me to cast itself out? This would be counterproductive as I am sure you are aware. You appear to be a fellow student of the scriptures also, but for the sake of any other readers, Jesus Himself had similar charges brought against Him by the religious leaders of His day, as described in Mark 3:22-30 (passage included below).
    If you tell me that the Holy Spirit that I ‘contact’ (as you say it), who leads me daily, and who empowers me to do many wonderful things in Jesus’ name, is really in fact a demon when the fruit that is evidenced in my life is good fruit, then you are leveling serious charges against me as a sister in the Lord. What then makes your attitude any different than that of the scribes in the Mark passage who accuse Jesus?
    Brother, I ask you this in love, hoping for some friendly dialogue and not an argument. I just feel you are bringing charges against some of God’s elect, your own brothers and sisters, and even praying for destruction, rather than for unification! This makes me sad (in a very heartbreaking way, not in a condescending way), for as you know, the Lord desires us to be come together and be one, not judge or condemn one another. When we judge and slander our brothers and sisters who we don’t see eye to eye with, we are choosing to participate with spirits of division, confusion, religion, legality, pride and haughtiness, judgemental and critical spirits, and others. We have an enemy that would love to see us all fall into this, where you begin to pray for my church’s destruction, and then in return, I decide to judge you back, etc… until we split further and discover more of our differences than our similarities.
    But this is not the way! It is the kindness of God that leads to repentance. We are charged to love one another, to pray for good for each other, not destruction.
    Love conquers all, my friend.
    I pray you will reconsider the charges you level against your fellow brothers and sisters, and even against the Holy Spirit in which many believers in non-denominational churches, pentacostal, and others, are truly and in great intimacy being led. You are saying that the Holy Spirit has become a severely limited being that must fit within the confines of your logical mind, and if He doesn’t fit there within your boundaries, then He must be a demon.
    I pray He reveals Himself to you in ways that stretch you right out of your comfort zone, and into all of the wonderful things that He has waiting for you right now, if you want it! But remember, that with God, many times you have to believe before you can see. Jesus did not come to preach a logical gospel.
    May the Lord Jesus richly bless you, Stuart. I pray you would come to know what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe.
    Blessings,
    Carrie

    Mark 3:22-30
    22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.”
    23So He called them to Himself and said to them in parables: “How can Satan cast out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. 27 No one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
    28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

  4. This is an interesting debate.

    Stuart, have you had a bad experience when being ‘ministered’ to in the past?

  5. Stuart says:

    Hi, Stuart here.

    Hey Carrie, if you want answers read the Westminster Confession of Faith.
    I could write pages to validate what I say, but what for. I mean would you ever agree with me?

    Cheers
    Stuart

  6. Stuart says:

    Hey Christian Ministry School Student. This is an interesting. You are right. But you know, when I die and stand before Jesus Christ he will say to me that my words concerning the Pentecostal movement are totally correct.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  7. Andy E says:

    Hey Stuart, was wondering if you could please share any verses that back up your claim that spiritual gifts ended after the death of the disciples. Thanks mate, Andy

  8. Carrie says:

    Stuart…
    I too, along with Andy, would just like some verses backing up your claim that the spiritual gifts ended after the death of the disciples. And I hope I didnt indicate that I wouldn’t believe you if you spoke truth from the word of God to me, because I am always open to hearing truth.
    However, I do not take the teachings of Calvin to be authoritative. So, if you have scripture to back what you say up, please tell me, because if it is given in context and is truth, it will only help me and further my walk with the Lord.
    Thanks!
    -Carrie

  9. Stuart says:

    Carrie,

    What if you can find scripture that says the tongues and prophesy are for today?

    The whole pentecostal movement is fake. They worship a false Holy Spirit which is not of our God and Jesus Christ.

    But I am not here to write pages and pages to convince you of this.

    Let Mal do this: above.

    If God wants to show you the truth regarding this he will do this through secondary means: other people and circumstance.

    I am here to get you thinking.

    This whole Prayer Ministries is a demonic sham. For anyone reading this post, be wise and go to a Presbyterian church and hopefully one with a minister who uses expository preaching.

    Carrie, read the Westminster confession of Faith.

    Time is running out for all of us. We will all soon meet Jesus for judgement. The Old Testament is full of false prophets and Prayer Ministries is just another chapter of this in human history.

    But what I write is the truth.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  10. cam says:

    does not the rivers of life flow out of your belly oh yeah,jump in the river im sure it is written that jesus asked can a spring bring fourth anything other than spring water?meaning whats inside of you is what will come out of you.if you have a demon inside of you than only acts of evil will come out of you but if it is the holyspirit than you will be transformed to be more like jesus amen.a true test is simple if you cant declare(speak)that jesus is your personal lord n saviour than its not the lords spirit but a demonic power inside of you(demons tremble at the sound of his name)only by the holy ghost can u say jesus is lord and your personal lord..jesus said that he will pour new wine(his spirit) into old wineskins(our sinfull bodies) honestly it is your free will to ask to receive the baptism of the holyghost and if you choose to than ask,jesus said how much more will GOD pour his spirit out onto those that ask(faith required)he also told his deciples not to go anywhere and wait until they received power from on high yes the holyghost is GODs power(supernatural)but yet also a person(not in the form of a human being) i love the holyghost as he equips and empowers me to love the lord thy GOD.(AGAIN I SAY U CANT HAVE A DEMON IN YOU AND EXALT THE NAME OF THE LORD.so when praying in tongues ask that/any person to worship his name at the same time and have them confess that christ is their personal lord(example pray in tongues than say thankyou jesus for being my personal lord and saviour go straight back into praying in tongues)take note the power of darkness knows jesus is lord and will say so, so therefore confession must be that christ the lord is YOUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOUR.amen

  11. Stuart says:

    Hi Cam,

    Your full of Holy Spirit silly comments.

    Is God your personal Lord Buddy Buddy. Your God is different to mine.

    I worship Jesus Christ.

    You can have your Holy Spirit Fantasy.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  12. Jen says:

    Hi, I am a Christian currently involved in ministry to the New Age Community. I have been using the concepts from Charles Kraft’s book “Christianity in Culture” 2005. From doing a web search on Charles Kraft I came across your site. Reading your material has raised some big questions for me. Should I now consider the entire New Age Community as a strong hold and work of Satan as you imply on your answers to questions regarding Alternative methods of healing in your FAQ section of this site. Most of the people I have met during my ministry would be into the “Occult” as you describe it. Is this New Age culture or subculture a “No Go” area? Is it not the same as any other culture, and is not God present and working there? I fail to see how I can be prejudiced here against the community I work in, as it is no different to India (where I have also been). Jen.

  13. Stuart says:

    Hello!

    Everything happens according to the wil of God. The New Age Movement is the same as the Pentecostal Movement. They are both being used according to God’s will. God raises them to use them for his own mysterious will, but he will also judge and destroy them because of their disobediece. The prophesey they reveal is demonic. A true phrophet only warns of sin. Their prophesey is sweet lies to their ears.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  14. Michael S says:

    Stuart,

    You are making generalisations. You keep warning about demons and fake spiritual gifts. Could you please tell of your personal experience/s of dealing with the demons behind the ‘spiritistic’ phenomena? Could you please provide first hand accounts of personally seeing deceived people set free from demonic oppression or possession? I sort of know where you’re coming from, having been part of  ‘Reformed’ communities….having read  WCF and the Shorter and Larger Catechisms. Perhaps you should dialogue with Calvinistic Pastors (working in developing countries) with more experience in these matters. By the way, have you been influenced by reading Warfield’s “Counterfeit Miracles” or John Macarthur’s “Charismatic Chaos”? 

  15. Stuart says:

    Hi Michael, Give me call and we can talk more: 0430 436 585. STUART

  16. Hello all,
    It is all about prayer, we praise him in everything we do, and when we do, he answers. I am a true testament. You can see my Pastors site where he shows how we can effectively pray for everything everyday with practical prayers. He is even starting a new challenge, unleash heaven in 2011.

  17. Brother Curt says:

    I would like to hear from those of you who are “practicioners” certified by Elijah House (Sandfords), and / or Theophostic Prayer Ministry (Ed Smith) adherents. Any shallow surfing on the subject of Prayer Ministry will land one in either of these two main “Inner Healing” camps. The popularity of “cleaning out our inner child’s closets” is selling like hotcakes world wide, and as you “certified” ones know it is very pricy into the hundreds and thousands of dollars to join these “Ministry Clubs”. Also easily trackable is the historical evolution of both E.H. and TPM models beginning with: Pschologized Christianity birthed out of Cocain sessions with Frued to spirit guides such as Philemon for Carl Jung to a searching mystic *Agnes Sanford to Kensley to Foster to John and Paula Sandford (admittedly and proudly mentored by *Agnes) to TMP’s founder Ed Smith (who understandibly authored, [How to Keep Your Ministry Out of Litigation], etc., etc. Once you start this research it becomes a clear path to follow). Finally, if [Transformation of the Inner Man], is still required reading for E.H. Prayer Ministry canadates, is it the new and sanitised edition by son Mark Sandford, or the prospective student / Intern canadate Practicioner use the ’82 edition?

    Finally, where is all this found in your Bibles?

    Jesus Is Lord

  18. Joseph says:

    Dear STUART and ALL THOSE WHO ARE NOT CLEAR ABOUT CHRIST AND CHRISTIANS
      First let me say that God is the only ONE who knows all things. As HE gives understanding we speak.
    So here goes.
    1. The ministry gift did not die with the first apostles. Remember Jesus said: I will be with you to the end of the age. He IS still with us. today… the end has not come.
    2. Remember that as God exist so satan and his forsaken gangs exist, thus God is still with us showing us the way to go. He leads us by His Holy Spirit. Man has logic and theology.
    3. Remember Jesus said: THESE SIGNS WILL FOLLOW THOSE WHO BELIEVE…Today, tomorrow and if Jesus tarries HIS coming there are believers still. So the power is still with us. He said I give you authority over all…….
    4. Remember He said in MARK 16 FROM VERSE 15 these signs would follow…. , he said in my name ……..that is happening still. Look at point one
    5. Remember he said: there would be apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists and teachers, today God is still calling men and women into his vine yard. EPHESIAN…

    LET’S GO NUCLEAR
    7. Remember He said He gave some servants five talents, some two….. toady he still does because we have men and women who operate in the gift. Do you know that you yourself you are being moved to ask questions, there is something there you want to be sure of.
    8. Remember He said there are some virgins who were foolish, they had the lamps but not oil, the oil is the HOLY SPIRIT, THE LAMP IS THE WORD…. YOUR WORD IS A LAMP TO MY FEET, THE OIL IS THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
    9. Remember HE said there are those who do not understand the scriptures and when they hear it, it falls on the way side…… but those who hear it bear fruit some 100, 60, 30, question is how do you bear fruit……BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
    10. Remember in Corinthians we are told there are GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT…TODAY TO THOSE WHOM GOD REALLY REALLY CALLED THAT POWER IS MANIFESTING.

    REAL QUESTION FOR STUART AND ALL THOSE WHO WILL READ THIS STATEMENTS….
    ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT THE LORD JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR….
    DO YOU STUART AND ANY ONE OUT THERE BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE TRUE AND ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD AND THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD AND THROUGH JESUS CHRIST WE HAVE BECOME BRAND NEW CREATIONS OF GOD, IF YOU BELIEVE THESE STATEMENTS THEN ASK HIM(JESUS) TO REALLY COME INTO YOUR LIFE AND GIVE YOU HIS LIFE AND LIFE ABUNDANTLY BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT.
    I pray that God in His abundant mercy  make you and me and all of us us all grow into the maturity and royalty that is in Christ Jesus OUR LORD AMEN.

  19. Shanelle Bennett says:

    So what do you think about that Stuart? I bet you have already figured out your arguments against instead of listening to truth and getting your salvation worked out.

  20. Stuart says:

    Love your work Joseph. You must have had Pente. parents to end up with that name. Jeremiah spoke of your spiritual forefathers when he accussed them of being false prophets in the temple.

    And Shanelle, a delightful name. However no short back and sides from you my dear.

    Let’s get it out there. Hey I’m just warming up.Give me a call if you are so brave: 0430 436 585.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  21. Stuart says:

    Hey Mal

    Give us some words of wisdom. It’s all so quiet. Mal Mal Mal, has God spoken to you lately? How many healings per day are you performing?

    Stuart

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